Erica Seagrave

[00:00:12] Speaker A: Well, I have some good news to share today. This podcast has an all new website. If you go to stimulatingstuff.com you'll find links to listen and follow the podcast on your favorite music or podcasting platform. You can also listen to episodes right on the website. And there's also a blog where I'm sharing supplementary information like links to my favorite learning resources that I mentioned in my last episode. Check it [email protected] well, I have a great guest interview today, so let's get to it. I'm Rich Vogel and this is Stimulating Stuff. Welcome back to the Stimulating Stuff podcast. I'm Rich Vogel and my guest today has more than 25 years of experience working in neurodiagnostics and executive leadership. In addition to holding a cnim, she's registered by ABRET and EEG and evoke potentials. She has such an interesting background with professional experience as a neurodiagnostic technologist, an education director, a business development professional at, as well as owner and chief operator of multiple companies in rather diverse sectors. She spent 16 years building a neuromonitoring company from the ground up, then sold it and began forging a new career path for herself. Among other things which we'll talk about, she's presently the owner and CEO of MJS Consultants, llc, where she develops leaders and advises organizations on how to perform more effectively and efficiently when welcome to the show. Erica Seagrave hi Rich, thank you so much. [00:01:53] Speaker B: Thanks for having me. [00:01:55] Speaker C: It's really good to have you. I've been excited about this interview, so there is so much to learn about you and I think the listeners will really benefit from hearing about your background, experience, insight. Another reason that I'm excited is because you and I don't actually know each other all that well. But one thing that I know that we have in common is the great state of Indiana. I went to grad school at IU and spent four wonderful years living in Bloomington and exploring Indy. Tell me about your background in Indiana. Is that where you grew up? [00:02:31] Speaker B: It is. Born and raised in Indianapolis pretty much all my life. And that's actually where I went to college at Indiana University in Indianapolis in the Indianapolis campus. [00:02:44] Speaker C: Great. And is that how your career began in IU in Indiana? [00:02:51] Speaker B: So I was going to school for an elementary education degree. I thought that's where I wanted to head and what I wanted to do get a bachelor's degree in education because I loved working with children. I love teaching. It turns out my senior year I was actually starting to Question if that was the industry and the space I wanted to get into. And so I started just looking around and determining. My mom was a nurse, so she's in the medical field. She still is a practicing nurse. At the age of 74, I didn't really want to go into nursing. I wanted to be more in a specialized field. I think if I were going to get into medicine or the medical field. I learned about the neurodiagnostic program that IU at the time had, which was each year they accept, it was a year training program. They accepted two students into the program and it was basically an internship, if you will, externship. So you were paid a stipend. It was nominal, but it was a grant approved, awarded stipend. I learned about the program and shadowed somebody at the hospital. And I ended up completely changing my path and going into neurodiagnostics and then later completing a degree and not in education, but in neurodiagnostics and healthcare management. [00:04:04] Speaker C: Wow, that's a major change. So starting off in education and then transitioning into health care ultimately I had somewhat of a similar experience in that I went to college for creative writing and spent a couple of years essentially as an English major before transitioning, transitioning to psychology and then developing an interest in neuroscience. So that's. I think a lot of people probably do that. That's really interesting. So where did things evolve from there for you, career wise? [00:04:32] Speaker B: Once I completed my one year training internship, during that training program, I was exposed to EEGs, evoke potentials and a little bit of or, but not a whole lot at the time, a little bit of nerve conduction as well. I completed the program and IU hired me right away. So straight away I was, you know, an employee of the. Where I worked at Riley Children's Hospital and iu, later it became Methodist, was included in that. And later that entity became Clarion. But at the time it was iu. And so I got my exposure to children, which I loved. I loved being around the kids. A lot of people cannot work at a children's hospital. I actually loved it and thrived in that space because it allowed me to have that, you know, to be nurturing and compassion with the parents and the children. So one year I did. I completed EEGs, you know, in inpatient, outpatient, and I. And I was in both potential as well. I also got registered in EEG right away and I quickly became bored with it. I was just thinking, you know, okay, is this it? What else is there? I feel like I'm ready to kind of level up and do something else in this industry. I really loved the industry. I just wanted to do something else. And at the time, they were really starting to cover more neuromonitoring cases. And at the time, they kind of asked, is anyone interested as a student? And I raised my hand. I said, absolutely, I'm interested. I'm intrigued. Let me go in and shadow and see if this is something I would like to do. It ended up being the path that I took and never looked back. I'm so happy that I chose neuromonitoring out of all the different spaces in neurodiagnostics. I was supposed to be in neuromonitoring. [00:06:08] Speaker C: And so from there, you ultimately created your. Your own business. And so how did that come about? [00:06:17] Speaker B: After working for the hospital for about seven years, I realized that I. And again, triple board certified. I realized that there were no other positions that I could advance in to get paid more money. And I didn't necessarily. There weren't really opportunities to be a manager, and nor did I really want to be a manager. So I took a step back. I had my two boys. I was married at the time, and I had two boys, young boys. So I ended up just leaving and looking into other options about how I might have some autonomy and freedom time freedom and money freedom. And I ended up starting Spine Tech. After a lot of research and, you know, hiring a CPA and a business attorney and all the things, I ended up, you know, just moving forward with that and started with one surgeon at one hospital. And when I went to my attorney, I'll never forget that when I told him what I was doing, and this is the industry that I'm in, and I. I'm starting my own business. He's. He said to me, erica, I'm not worried you're not going to do well. I'm worried this is going to do so well. What are you going to do when that happens? And I said, I have no idea. I'll let you know. [00:07:22] Speaker C: And. [00:07:22] Speaker B: And I'll need you at that time to help me get through this. But at the time, Rich, I just really wanted to grow and do something. And I knew that there were community hospitals in Indiana that didn't have neuromonitoring, and that's what really intrigued me. So Everybody came to IU and St. Vincent for these big surgeries, but the community hospitals didn't have neuromonitoring. And I had to go to each of these hospitals to kind of put them on the map. It was extremely hard. Imagine, if you will, 20 some years ago, you know, here me in my late 20s walking into a hospital with administrators and saying, you need this service and here's why you need it. I was told no so many times and felt like I was kicked in the gut. But I continued to keep showing up and trying to get a surgeon to champion and to be the muscle to get me in the door. And that's what happened with one facility. It was at a community health network. One surgeon backed me up, went to administration and basically said, if you don't bring her in here, I'm pulling all my cases out. This is who I want and I want it now. And that was how my journey began as owner and CEO of Spine Tech. [00:08:24] Speaker C: Well, I love that story and I just want to double click on this idea of starting a business for a second. I want to share something with you, but it's going to culminate in a question. So for me, about eight to 10 years ago, I had what I knew at the time and still believe was an excellent opportunity to go solo and start my own neuromonitoring company. And there was a very rich market to be captured. I had excellent connections. The problem was I was super risk adverse. And I basically chickened out because for maybe the first time in my life, the only time in my life, I was afraid to fail. So putting neuromonitoring aside for a second because I think investing in neuro monitoring right now or starting a neuro monitoring company is probably a terrible idea. But if there's someone out there listening who's on the cusp of starting their own venture, whatever it is, and they're feeling timid. Do you have any advice to share based on your experience? [00:09:26] Speaker B: Oh yeah. I have so much advice to share about this. [00:09:29] Speaker C: So this is a whole different podcast episode, maybe like the top one or two. [00:09:36] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. It kind of ties into MJS consultants. So first of all, you should know that I'm a risk taker. I love taking risks. My husband isn't. He's very conservative. And so I surprise him all the time with, hey, I'm starting another business. This is what I'm doing now. And so first of all, I have to say that because I'm not afraid to take risks, I'm not afraid to fail. So that doesn't really intimidate me if you ask about getting into neuro monitoring. So I'll talk about that for just a second. Someone did recently ask me, they were thinking about going solo and starting an IO business. And I'm literally waving the red flag like, don't do it. Do not do this right now. But if it's any other industry, I say yes. Depending on what it is now, I'm going to give them sound advice. And depending on what it is and what the market holds, always things leading up to just going out and starting it. Are you passionate about it? Can you turn that passion into profit? You know, let's look at the market and et cetera. So I'm going to be that champion for them, saying, yes, go do it. You can do it. If you think you can't, you're going to be met with obstacles. I was along the way, I had to learn how to hurdle those obstacles but keep forging. So, yeah, I'm going to say yes, go for it. [00:10:42] Speaker C: I love it. And I love that phrase, turning passion into profit. So, so going back to, to Spine Tech and to your, your neuromonitoring business, what led you to exit the business and are you completely exited from the profession at this point? [00:10:57] Speaker B: What led me to sell the business? So I am involved in a lot of different organizations and so I was going to the meetings, I listen, I pay attention. I did a lot of speaking and training and a lot of things along the way. And I kept my ear to the ground so I could kind of see where business was going. Small sole ownership, mom and pop shops, if you will, these smaller entities. I could see where things were going because I was experiencing that competition in Indiana. There were larger national companies coming in under, bidding my fees to the hospital. So I was always competing with that. I could never just rest easy for that. I could also see the insurance reimbursements were going down. I had to. I outsourced billing. I hired a billing coordinator from within and taught her how to do out of network billing and all those things. But I could still see what was on the horizon. So I knew at that time that I either sell where I can make a profit from this company or I'm going to get gobbled up and I'm going to dissolve the company. And I have too much sweat equity into this company to let that happen. So I made the determination that I was going to build my company up to a certain number and then I was going to sell the business, however. So I kind of sought out the company who acquired my company. I wasn't ready to leave the industry and I made that very clear. Some people are, they're ready to exit and they just say, I'm done. I was still passionate about it. I was just tired of being president and CEO, Rich. I just needed a break from all the responsibilities, but I wasn't ready to get out of the field completely. [00:12:33] Speaker C: I can absolutely understand that. And it shows the important thing. You exited at a good time. It shows the importance of really understanding the nuances of the market and the economy in which you're trying to operate a business. And I think a lot of people don't keep their ear to the ground like that, and that poses a challenge for them. Is there anything that you'd like to share in terms of what you want other people to know about the neuromonitoring industry? [00:13:02] Speaker B: You know, I think there's, it's very rewarding even to me to this day. One of the second questions that you ask is, you know, I'm not completely out of it. I needed to take a break and step back. The company who acquired my company, I stayed on with them because I was part of the asset. I was the one who the surgeons knew, the hospital administration knew. I was still very visible, even though at that time when I sold, I was working on the business more than in the business. So I had backed up a little bit, but I was still very involved. And so, you know, at that time, I transitioned the business over to the other company that acquired, you know, my business. And then I ended up staying a couple more years. And so that allowed me to really look at a broader scope of neuromonitoring from more of a regional standpoint, from this company. They had multiple contracts and they. I ended up, you know, working in the C suite, still in business development. But I got to learn a lot about neuromonitoring as a whole. It's so much bigger than all the things that I knew just from a clinical standpoint as a sole owner, wearing every hat. And so that allowed me to continue to stay, you know, in the space and, you know, still be passionate about it. I'm sorry, what was the second part of your, the question that you asked? [00:14:10] Speaker C: It was really a one part question. It was, what do you want other people to know about the industry of neuromonitoring? [00:14:17] Speaker B: So there, you know, I still think it's very rewarding. This industry is still very rewarding. You get to take care of patients, which is very rewarding. There are a lot of sick patients out there. You're helping surgeons and that, and they're very grateful for that. You're meeting a lot of really neat and intelligent people and I appreciate that. So I get to do that now a little bit because now I'm just a clinician. I pop in and cover cases for a couple local companies every once in a while. And I enjoy doing that. I've worked too hard to keep my credentials, so I want to keep my credentials up and I want to stay in this space. It just looks different for me now, but I do think it's still a very rewarding field to be in. [00:14:55] Speaker C: Yeah, I think anything if you're involved in patient care, if you just think about the work that you're doing to help other people, there is certainly that rewarding aspect of it. So right now I know you have several irons in the proverbial fire. So what are you doing now? [00:15:15] Speaker B: Well, in 2021, I ended up leaving the IOM industry, if you will, and the company that acquired my company at that time. Once I was, you know, involved in a larger company, I started to kind of miss being a decision maker. I work with a lot of people on that team and different departments, but I really missed having value and being directly involved and I missed wearing that CEO hat. And so I thought for me, I really need to potentially venture outside of the neuromonitoring space a little bit and see how I can help other businesses. So I, I started the MJS consultants business in hopes that perhaps I could be a coach, a business coach or consultant or advisor and help small companies grow and prosper like I wish I would have had 27 years ago. You know, 27 years ago when I started my first business. At that time, I didn't have a partner. Coaches weren't really, you know, a thing or prevalent. And so I didn't always have someone. I could just pick up the phone on speed dial and say, hey, how do I. Especially in this industry, it's so competitive, right. I didn't have anyone I could contact and just reach out to. So I'm being that person now and saying, if you want to start this business, do it and let me help you. I've been through all the trial and error. I've spent a lot of time and money, resources. Let me help you get to where you want to be. And that's very rewarding for me now in my, my career and some of it is still coaching neuromonitoring companies. I'm still doing that because it's a space I know very, very well. I'm also into health and nutrition. I know that space. But really I want to be industry agnostic where I can help any company start start the company, grow it or even potentially look at exiting and what their exit strategy is for an acquisition with the merger and acquisition. [00:17:03] Speaker C: Very nice. I think it would be nice if all of us could just go back 27 years and talk to our younger selves about everything that we know now and give some advice. But having somebod somebody like you to work with and talk to and and guide is second best thing. It's, it's the only reality. You can't go back 25 years and talk to yourself, but you can help others with the knowledge and experience you have. Okay, let's take a quick break right here and listen to a word from our sponsor. When we come back, I want to ask you some questions about what you've learned over the course of your career and what advice you have to share with our listeners. [00:17:50] Speaker D: Located in the heart of the technology district in Milford, Ohio, Consolidated Neurosupply is a leading provider of healthcare products used to diagnose neurological disorders and monitor critical structures during high risk surgical procedures. With 20 plus years of experience, we continue to provide our customers with quality healthcare products while maintaining our focus on service and value. Our technologically advanced inventory management system and a substantial investment in this inventory can ensure that your order will be filled the day it is received. Product offerings include emg, EEG and subdermal needle electrodes, pedicle screws, and direct nerve stimulators for the fastest, most reliable delivery in the industry. Choose Consolidated Neurosupply. Please visit us at www.neurosupply.com or call us today at 866-479-0436. [00:18:55] Speaker C: And we're back. I'm talking to Erica Seagrave, owner and CEO of MJS Consultants, and we are talking about, we're going onto some topics to learn what she's learned in the course of her career. So let me ask you this question. What's one thing that your business or any business that you had did that you didn't expect? [00:19:19] Speaker B: I'm gonna have to go back to spine tech days only because it was my baby. It was kind of like my third child. I didn't expect it to be successful and continue on 16 years, especially without a partner or any capital investment. So I really didn't expect for it to grow and to become that successful, especially in a state where there were some people that didn't think it would be successful because, right. We had two really large one academic center and the other hospital that everybody went to. And so here's me kind of going Solo and being a black sheep and saying, I'm going to do this in Indianapolis. I'm going to be that person that forges the path here, and I'm going to see what happens. And so I think I was surprised at how well the business. Business did for so long. People run their businesses longer. Yes. But I still am pleased because I was able to keep a lot of large companies away and not have their footprint in Indiana. So I, I was surprised and happy about those things. [00:20:18] Speaker C: Absolutely. I mean, 16 years and. And keeping those, those large companies away is. Is certainly a challenge. One thing that I think our listeners would really benefit from hearing from you is what is the most important lesson that you have learned over the course of your career? [00:20:40] Speaker B: How to be a better listener and a good leader. Wow. I had no clue how to. When I started spine tech. I didn't know that I would at one point have 20 employees. I had no idea how to manage people. And I think that was something I had to just learn as I went. [00:21:06] Speaker C: Well, the most important lesson that you learned over the course of your career and the first thing that you said was how to be a better listener. And, and that's powerful. That. I mean, that speaks to empathy. And you said how to be a good leader, but that being a good leader is also being empathetic and being a good listener. So I think you nailed the question. But you're. You can feel free to add more if you want. [00:21:30] Speaker B: Yeah, no, just elaborating on that. Just listening and leadership. Because I think one thing I had to learn along the way was there are two sides and two versions of something and not just take one side of it. I wanted to really show my employees that I wanted to listen to them and value them. So I think the two things are just being a good listener, understanding both aspects. If you have a middle management understanding, they have people to report to up and, you know, below and above them and just how do everything you can to become a better leader. You're not always going to get taught how to be a good leader within the organization. So take it upon yourself to just try to become a good leader. I think that's probably the biggest takeaway. [00:22:08] Speaker C: And when you look back on the course of your entire career, what would you say is the career accomplishment that you're most proud of becoming? [00:22:19] Speaker B: Triple board certified, number one. I think that was a good accomplishment for me early on. Then I just kept leveling up and raising the bar, starting spine tech, growing spine tech. One of the things within my company in the organization was. I was very proud of getting Joint Commission accredited which we were able to do. That's a lot of work for a small company. As a small company, I'm proud that I was able to do things that big companies were doing as far as benefits go and PTO and becoming Joint Commission accredited. We had an education program. I was quite proud of that. And by the way, I'm not taking all the glory for this. I hired key people who helped me do this so they were extremely valuable to my team. So in no way am I saying I did all this. I could not have done it without my team. But we developed an excellent education program for a small company. We had a quality assurance program which I thought was phenomenal and is one of our competing leads when we go into hospital, how to show and try to edge out our competition. So I think those are things that, you know, I'm really, I'm really proud of. [00:23:20] Speaker C: Giving credit to your team. That's a sign of a good leader right there. So have you had your I made it moment yet? [00:23:29] Speaker B: I would say I keep going back to Spine Tech. I haven't made it yet for MJS consultants. I'll, you know, table that for now. I hope to have a company like as successful as Spine Tech was, but right now I'm not there. I'm still developing and building up my book of business again for Spine Tech it was just starting it, staying in the game and having the guts to start it. And my aha moment I think was just the fact that I could step back and not be so involved in the day to day covering of cases, which I did. You know, everybody has to wear many hats and I was wearing all of them. And I think just kind of stepping back and hiring key people on my team like a manager in my office full time to help me with billing. A billing coordinator was scheduling, a clinical coordinate, clinical manager rather and having people help on the team. That was a moment for me that was finally like I could take a breath and to delegate because also with running a business and the type of personality I have, I'm a little bit of a control freak. I was. I've let a lot of that go. So it's very hard for me to delegate because I always said nobody's going to do it as good as I do. This is my business and my baby, so no one's ever going to do it. I had to let that go and start delegating it. If they could do it at 80%, I was happy with that. And that was a really good feeling. [00:24:42] Speaker C: That's really interesting. I think a lot of people tend to think of their I made it moments as external factors or external accomplishments or awards or something like that. But they can very much be internal transformations that you recognize, like being able to delegate and being in a position where you can empower other people. And that very much being a I made it moment as well. Great point. What's one lesson that you think if you look back over the course of your career, that your job or your career has taught you, that you think everyone should learn at some point in. [00:25:22] Speaker B: Their life how to be flexible? Especially in this industry. I think in the neuromonitoring space in particular, being able to change on the fly and just being okay with change and knowing that it's going to get you somewhere in the future, Anticipating what may be coming ahead, paying attention to not just what you're doing in your little corner of the world, but how the businesses run and who key people are, and just always just doing whatever you can to learn and become better in whatever position it is that you're in. [00:25:57] Speaker C: And I just want to focus on neuromonitoring for a second. I want to just think about the average surgical neurophysiologist out there working. What do you think is the most important personality trait or strength someone would need to be successful in that role? [00:26:16] Speaker B: Well, some of the key things I just spoke about were to, you know, being flexible and being able to accept change and adapt to change. Having the emotional intelligence to, you know, be able to let things slide off your back and not take it too personally. Having anticipation, always thinking ahead, having planned A, B and C. I still do it to this day, and my goodness, I've been doing it for 20 some years. I'm always thinking about, okay, if this isn't going to happen, what is my backup plan if the surgeon wants to do this? So anticipating what's coming ahead and how you're going to swerve and adjust to those parameters. Also teaching, just having taught a lot of clinicians and students in the operating room is having body awareness. Be aware of your surroundings. One of the things that I used to always teach my students is to have an eye. You know, this is figuratively, not literally, but have an eye on your system and have an eye in the OR and looking around. Same with your ear. Have an ear to hear and have an ear, always listening what's going on in the operating room. There's more than just you in the room. So pay attention to what's being said. What's happening? What's going on? Read the room. Right, so now we say it as kind of a sarcastic, smart aleck response, but read the room and truly do that. You can look as good as you can on paper. And I've interviewed so many students and employees, and you can look great on paper. But it really comes down to, do you have the personality and the behavior to withstand these long cases, tough surgeons and nursing staff? So I want to know, do you have what it takes and you really need all these things? It's a whole lot more than that. Those are the top probably four things that come to mind. [00:27:52] Speaker C: Great answer. So you just mentioned a few minutes ago, you mentioned letting things roll off your back. You mentioned not taking things personally. And previously, when we talked about, you know, some of the things that, that were rewarding about neuromonitoring, we also know there's a lot of challenges that people face. And I'm just curious, what's the closest you ever got to saying, you know what, screw this, I'm out, and just leaving. [00:28:21] Speaker B: So many times, just the. There's so many times I wanted just to walk away and say, I'm done. Whether it was, you know, from fighting with. Not really a surgeon. It was fighting with a surgeon. It was maybe a long day where I was completely exhausted and, you know, had one one weekend I had to drive out of town. I had five cases back to back to back to back. Literally, I was exhausted. I didn't have enough time to do any paperwork or anything because the cases went so fast. And by the way, they were multimodality cases so quick, like kyphoplasty, multimodality. I was exhausted at that time. You know what? I was angry. I'm like, why am I the owner of this business and why am I sitting here on a weekend away from my two young boys and my family covering these cases is. Is this where I really want to be? And so there, that's just one instance that I had to just take a step back. And then you know what? I felt sorry for myself during the moment. Then I got over it. And then I quickly moved on and just said, okay, this is, this is the life you chose and this is what you signed up for. [00:29:23] Speaker C: Okay, so I'm just going to double down on that for a second because you said, I just got over it. But it's sometimes not that easy. Did you have any, any resources or anything that you kind of leaned on to help you get through it and press on? [00:29:38] Speaker B: Well, I had employees, I had a team. I couldn't just walk away. That wasn't an option for me to just say, I'm done. I'm closing the doors of Spine Tax. That was never an option. When things like that happen, I knew that a lot of times, Rich, I took accountability. It's what I talk about today in my coaching is taking accountability. Don't blame anyone else. Point. You know, this is from like Gary V. I'm a huge fan of Gary Vaynerchuk because he gets in your face. But look back at the person and say, what can I do differently? And I had to do that so many times and do a life check. Like, okay, if this is the problem, if you're not happy, if people are leaving or whatever the circumstances were, what do you need to do to make a change so this isn't going to happen again? And so I oftentimes had to have those reset moments for myself to get like Erica in check. And once I was able to do things like that, then I, then I was able to grow and get out of my way. [00:30:30] Speaker C: There's a huge difference between responsibility and accountability. And I think a lot of people don't think about that. But accountability is ultimately what it comes down to. And as a business, not just as a business owner, I think, but even on day to day caring for individual patients, taking accountability for the work that you're doing in caring for that patient is much different than taking responsibility. It's almost like the next level up help. [00:31:01] Speaker B: I 100 agree. In fact, I have core values that I live by professionally and personally. And accountability is one of my top core values because I think that's how much I believe in the word and how people need to take accountability for their actions. It's that simple. [00:31:18] Speaker C: Well, there's theories about nature and nurture. Right. And certainly you didn't come by all of this wisdom by yourself. I'm sure you had some mentors. Are there some folks that you can look at that you would look back and say that they were really important professional mentors in your life? [00:31:39] Speaker B: Yes. Starting with back at the IU days, Dr. Mark Hand, he was in charge of the neurology program. He was instrumental in helping me grow. Very supportive. I leaned on him as often as I could. And as a student I would ask him questions and try to put myself around him as much as possible. And any of the fellows that brought, they brought in, I did the same with them. So I think he would be my first that I have to give a shout out To Kathy Boldrey. She was huge in helping me get my business started. She, you know, was the first to leave Indiana and start her business in Texas. And I called upon her. We, you know, our friends, we were friends at the time. And I said, I need help. I'm not getting much information. I can't read and get this anywhere, you know, on the. On the web, so please help. And she was, you know, because she knew I wouldn't be competing with her, she was very helpful in helping me get my business set up and answering some of the questions that I had. Also, I would go, and again, this is in my late 20s, early 30s. I was showing up at every ASNM meeting I could, you know, scrounging up the money to go asset meetings. I would walk up to, you know, these PhDs and MDs and introduce myself to them at the ASNM meetings because, again, I'm a risk taker. I would introduce myself and say, hi, I'm Erica Seagrave. I started a company in Indiana. I would love to ask you questions. It was more clinical questions, not business questions. But Jeff Balzer was one of them. I would just, you know, talk to him about motor evo potentials. Mike Eiseley back in the day about emg. Larry Wierzbowski was huge, you know, for audiology. So I had people that I could call and ask questions to, and they, you know, allowed me to email them and call them, which I'm so grateful for. I'll, you know, always appreciate them for that. In addition to surgeons, I've learned a lot from surgeons along the way, too. So when they're reviewing x rays and MRIs, I'm right behind them, reviewing it with them and asking them questions and not afraid to ask questions in. Dive into the case a little bit more in the anatomy and the procedure. [00:33:34] Speaker C: Did you hear that? Everybody behind the surgeon asking questions like that is how you learn. That's fantastic. Okay, so aside from the people in your life, what would you say are the best resources? So non human resources, whether that's books or websites or whatever that have helped you along the way in your. It doesn't have to be your clinical career. You can take it wherever you want. Want. [00:34:02] Speaker B: Any meetings I could go to, I was going to. So asset as and any webinars I could attend, if I couldn't go to them physically in person, reading any type of literature, white papers, articles, anything I could get my hands on online, I was reading it. And by the way, when I owned spine tech and was running that Business, it was all iom I didn't do, I didn't have time to re research how to be a good leader. Later I did, but in the beginning I didn't have time. I was just so focused and people have asked me what's going on in the world News. I'm like, I don't know. I'm so focused on neuro monitoring. I don't know what's going on around me right now. It's my two boys, my family and this business. So at that time it was that. Now at some, at some point, you know, during my journey, it transitioned into leadership books, motivation books and how to better be a better leader of a company. Anything business. So Harvard Business, Harvard Business, Forbes, anything, you know, know, anything I can get my hands on. I'm reading it. How to be a better person, a better leader and a better business owner. [00:35:04] Speaker C: Great resources and great advice. And what about today? If you want to keep your toes in the knowledge of what's happening in neuromonitoring, do you have an online resource that you tend to lean on? [00:35:17] Speaker B: I go to LinkedIn. I, I really pay attention to LinkedIn to see what's being published, where what, you know, meetings are coming up and any articles or any controversy, anything I want to, you know, just kind of be in the know. So that's probably, probably the, the resource that I use most of all right now. And then maybe that leads me somewhere, another path. That's where that's usually where I start. [00:35:38] Speaker C: And is there a particular person, company concept, something along those lines that you currently admire in neuromonitoring? [00:35:48] Speaker B: I'm going to always say the company that, that is ethical. The company that continues to care about patients and truly put patients first and their employers first. A company that has a phenomenal didactic and clinical training program and a company that has a quality assurance program. All of it, you need all those controls, you need every one of those things, I think in order to have respect in my eyes. But I have pretty high standards, right. [00:36:19] Speaker C: And that's like the big trifecta, right? Education, training, quality assurance. If you have those three and you actually do them and believe in them and you are continuously working with your team on improvement, then you have demonstrated commitment to patient care almost by virtue of having those things, I think. So I want to pivot a little bit here. Tell me more about the services that MJS consultants provide. [00:36:47] Speaker B: MJS consultants provides two types of services really. They're a little bit unique and different. One is coaching, where it's more One on one coaching with leaders of the company. So it's mostly owners, but anybody in the C suite or decision makers and that's potentially maybe helping them to just be a better leader and things they need to do to make their company perform better. The second Persona I have, if you will, is more of a consultant type of role in which companies will hire me to come in as a concierge consultant or a concierge coo where I can come in and look at the business, build a strategy around what their, their goals are and then help them achieve those goals because I know how to implement those things too. And so that with the consulting it's, you know, potentially I'm hired for several months to a year until I work myself out of the job. And the coaching is more one on one where it happens all the time. So I take those hour calls, I go into the office, it happens on, you know, virtually we meet somewhere, whatever that may look like. I meet, you know, those executives where they are. So it's really both types of business, both types of services, excuse me, coaching and consulting and everything in between. Rich I don't like if there are things I feel like I can't do. I'm going to connect them with someone who's going to do that better than I can. But if it's something that I can take on that's going to be fun to me in this journey, I'm going to take it on because I know I can help them. Is basically, I know I'm not the best at, you know, at this, but I feel like I have a pretty good could base knowledge on how to start a business, look at a business plan and help someone develop a business plan and help them level up and grow for a potential merger or acquisition. [00:38:26] Speaker C: So I'm just curious, you just mentioned a business plan. What percentage of small business startups do you think actually begin with a business plan? [00:38:37] Speaker B: A very low, low percentage. [00:38:42] Speaker C: I'm amazed by the majority fail. [00:38:44] Speaker B: Yes, I'm amazed by it. Put something together, I and tell them I have a template. I will help you create one. Put something down on paper. What is your vision? And a lot of times they just need someone to provoke them and ask them the questions like, what is your vision of the company? What's your mission? What core values do you have? Let's start with that. Who are you? Who do you, what's your brand? Let's start with that. Because if you don't know that, you should not get into business. And I've had to have this tough conversation with people. [00:39:12] Speaker C: Yeah, that's, that's kind of sad. Okay, so I want to give you the mic for a second, so to speak. And I know you sort of answered this question a little bit already, but I want to give you an opportunity to expand. If someone's looking for some coaching to sharpen their leadership skills or if they want to improve their business, how can they reach you and what could they expect in working with you? And I think the second part of that you kind of already answered. You just talked about the one on one coaching you talked about. I think you said site visit visits with companies. But do you want to expand a little bit on that? [00:39:46] Speaker B: Yes. So first of all, I'm on all social media platforms, so they can find me anywhere there. I'm on Facebook, MJS Consultants. I'm on Instagram at MJS Consultants. I post all the time. At one point it was three times a week. But I had to back that down a little bit. So it's, it's, it's pretty frequently, semi frequently, I would say. Now I have a website they can go to. They can email me me@erica seagrave gmail.com I have many ways they can get a hold of me, so that's not, you know, an issue. What I typically do, Rich, is I want to meet with that client in person, if I can. Always the first visit is in person. I want to determine what their goals are, what they're trying to achieve here and where they're at in their business. Is it truly a startup where they need to, you know, get registered with this with the state secretary of state and do some of those things? I can do that. I don't want to do that. So I'll pass that stuff along. Like, once you get that far, then come back and see me. I'm a strategy person. I'm an operations person. So, you know, get through that stuff, then come back to me. I always interview them because I want to know if they're a good fit for me and if I'm a good fit for them. So I think that's very critical in determining what their needs are. And then we can talk about is it coaching or is it more consulting? Sometimes they hire me. Start out starting off being a consultant. It ends up being a coach because the leader is the person problem. And so I circle back to. [00:41:06] Speaker C: I can see that. [00:41:08] Speaker B: Yeah, let's go back to the leader. Because what I'm hearing you say is that this is your issue. You're the one that's not being accountable and that you want changes, but you have, it has to start with you. And so sometimes it ends up being a little bit of both. But interviewing clients is very important to me. I have to determine first of all if it's something I can take on. Because being solo, I can't take on every project, especially the consulting projects, which take a lot of banana with. So I have to just be very careful about who I, who I can bring on. [00:41:34] Speaker C: All right, well, you heard it here. There's opportunity out there for people who want to improve their, their management or their, their businesses. I want to try something new here. This can be the first time I try this, but I want to do this moving forward with different people that I interview. And I want to end by asking three signature questions, because I'm just interested to see how different people answer. So the first one is, is if you could give some advice to people in neuromonitoring in like five to seven words, think it fits on a PowerPoint slide, what would it be? [00:42:08] Speaker B: I would say to just be present and pay attention what's going on around you. There's so much more than what you just you think in your little corner. Understand, like all aspects of neuromonitoring, if you're bored, you're not doing something right, pay attention to what the surgeon's doing, the scrub tech and the instruments being handed off, the conversations that are going around, what the implants that are being used, who's the rep, what's his, him or her, their name, what implants are they using? Why pay attention to more than just what's going on in your little circle, in your bubble? [00:42:40] Speaker C: My God, every second is an opportunity to learn, isn't it? [00:42:44] Speaker B: Yes. [00:42:45] Speaker C: So my second question is, do you have any insights or thoughts regarding how we can inspire people to be more involved in the neuromonitoring community or more invested in their careers. [00:42:59] Speaker B: Participate in as much as they can. If their companies are offering something, participate in those CEUs and webinars, just hop online. If you can go to industry meetings, go to those meetings. Just be involved as much as you as they possibly can and continue to learn about the industry. And I think you had said it in one of your podcasts, which I really appreciate is understanding what the middle management and senior management levels look like and what they have to do and understanding the economics of the, the business and the financials a bit to what they're willing to share and the hospital administration. Understanding all aspects is only going to help the, the clinician Be better at what they do and be it a commodity, I love it. [00:43:40] Speaker C: Okay, one final question. I know I'm supposed to be interviewing you, but I want to give you the opportunity to ask me any question you want. So what, if anything, do you want to ask me? [00:43:50] Speaker B: I would love to see, I would love to know, where do you feel this industry is going, like in the, the next five years as a whole, with small companies, larger companies, with the insurance. It's a, it's a broad question. It's big with, you know, insurance reimbursements and some of the things that are going on. Obviously, I've listened to your previous podcasts, but I'm anxious to hear what your perspective is and your position that you hold now and where you think this is going. [00:44:17] Speaker C: Well, I think that there's going to be a lot of consolidation out there in the market. I think a lot of small businesses are struggling right now. They don't have the economy of scale. They may have all of their eggs in one or two baskets. And as you know, it's a zero sum game out there. So you have to steal business in order to acquire business. You can't. And usually that means under bidding somebody. So, you know, technical services prices are, I think they're steady, but they're being pressured low. And I think the, the challenges that the small businesses are facing is going to essentially force them to either go out of business or sell. The challenge is that I don't think a neuromonitoring business today is worth nearly what it was five years ago. And I think that the valuations will continue to decline. So I see probably the big players being the only ones left and not in five years. But it'll certainly, certainly be moving quickly in that direction over the past, over the next few years. Insurance reimbursements, that's a wild card. I mean, with the no surprise act that we have now, that's posing challenges. But I think insurance companies are looking for inventive ways to not pay for neuromonitoring. It's not about decreasing necessarily what they're paying for the service, although that's happening. But they're looking for reasons to deny and deny the appeal. And so that poses challenges too. So I think there's going to be a lot of pressure over the next few years and that may force some changes in a lot of infrastructures for various companies, including things like pay scale. And that means for everybody, not just neurophysiologists, but neurologists, managers, owners, it's, it's all moving in that direction. And that's one of the reasons why I said getting into neuro monitoring, like starting a company now or investing in a company is just a terrible idea. You know, if it was 10 years ago, I'd say go, go, go. But it's, it's changed dramatically, so. Well, that's a very negative response. But let me say something positive. I think that there is is more in the way of education and quality assurance than there was years ago on a larger scale, meaning that more companies have those departments than they did before, even some of the smaller companies. So there's improvements there. And I see technology changing for the better as well. I know some companies are coming out with new software, more advanced hardware and that's going to allow for better neuro monitoring with less troubleshooting. So I think that's helpful too. So there's a positive angle on where I see neuro monitoring going. [00:47:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I would agree with that. I would agree with your statements and I think that neither one of those are surprise answers to me. I try to stay involved as much as I can, still from a clinical aspect and because of the consulting. But yeah, I would agree with those things. Things. [00:47:40] Speaker C: Well, Erica, thank you so much for being on the show and sharing your experiences and insights. It's been a pleasure. [00:47:47] Speaker B: Thank you for having me, Rich. I appreciate it's been a lot of fun. [00:47:50] Speaker C: So Erica Seagrave is owner and CEO of MJS Consultants. You can check them out online on various social platforms, as Erica said, and [email protected]. well, that's it for today. Thanks to all my listeners and I just want to send a big shout out to everyone who's been sharing this podcast on social through word of mouth. It's really exciting for me and rewarding to watch the listenership grow. Many thanks to everyone who's been sending me emails and texts. I love reading your comments. Please continue sending comments, critiques and thought provoking questions. You can reach me at stimulating stuff podcastmail.com I love hearing from you. I'm Rich Vogel and that was Stimulating Stuff Stuff. [00:48:46] Speaker E: The information and opinions provided in this podcast are those of the individual speakers and do not represent the opinions of their employers, affiliates or other third party individuals or organizations. Sponsorship and other advertising messages do not constitute support of preference for specific products or services. This podcast is not designed to and does not provide medical advice, diagnosis, opinion, treatment or services. This podcast, its host and all participants, including guests and sponsors collectively. Participants provide general information for entertainment purposes only. The information provided in this podcast is not a substitute for medical or professional opinion and should not use the information for that purpose. Participants shall not be held liable or responsible for any advice, course of treatment, diagnosis, or any other information, services or product you obtain or render. This podcast should not be used in any legal capacity whatsoever, including, but not limited to establishing a standard of care in a legal sense or as a basis for expert witness testimony. No guarantee is given regarding the accuracy of any statements or opinions made on the podcast. Thank you for listening. [00:50:19] Speaker B: Sam.